This episode has been automatically transcribed by AI, please excuse any typos or grammatical errors.

Chris: Tammy, thanks for stopping by Barcode.

Tammy: Hey, thanks for having me, Chris. It’s always good to see and hear from you.

Chris: Yeah, you too. And it’s good. Cause today you get to stop by your local cybersecurity bar. You didn’t have to travel too far.

Tammy: That is correct.

Chris: So tell us about your background and what led you down the cybersecurity career path.

Tammy: Sure. Yeah. So if you would have asked me, I don’t know, maybe 15 years ago, if this was where I was gonna end up, I would have probably laughed at you and said, no, I don’t think so. But probably about ten years ago, I was in the internal audit function at air products and chemicals. And that was kind of my first dip into the cyberspace when we did assessment of their cybersecurity program there. And shortly after that, we had a new CEO started air products, and he was looking to spin off our chemicals division.

Tammy: And it is then that I had the opportunity to move to the new company and be the first ever CISO there in a brand new company. I actually had interviewed for a different position on that leadership team, and the CIO said, I want you on the team, but I don’t want you in the role you interviewed for. He’s like, I want you in the security role. And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah. He’s like, you know the company, you have good relationships with the leadership team.

Tammy: You have the internal audit background, the rest you can learn. So I took a risk at that point in time. I moved over to the new organization and took on my first CISO responsibility for a brand new company. Stood the program up from scratch, along with the rest of the IT infrastructure and application base. I stayed there for about three years prior to them getting purchased by Merck KGA, Germany. From there, I moved to Covanta Energy and took on the CISO responsibilities there. So another manufacturing company in the energy and waste industry, different than chemicals.

Tammy: And then I stayed there for about another three years, and then I took a couple months off for myself. And just in October, I have started my third CISO stint here at Trinseo and putting together and improving their program, very much focused on Ot, security. Security and making sure our manufacturing floor is secured properly. So that’s been, that’s been the CISO run, if you will, very much focused on manufacturing with a couple of different business models there. So that’s how I ended up here.

Chris: So let me ask you this. Being in several different CISO roles, primarily in the same industry, but like you said, different business models, you know, what are some of the key takeaways there in terms of the commonalities versus the differentiators?

Tammy: So I think there’s definitely some industry specific things that need particular attention in the different industries. Right? So if you’re coming more from a financial services background, you have a much more heavily regulated industry that has a variety of different requirements that need to be met and secured differently in manufacturing. When you look at the fact that there are production facilities that are making product, in some of my experience, the product that we were making were hazardous and toxic chemicals that could be used nefariously if fallen into the wrong hands.

Tammy: At Covanta, it was very much fire was a huge risk from a business perspective because we were combusting residential trash and converting that to energy. So the differences in what you need to protect and how you protect it needs it varies, right? Education brings a whole other set of requirements to the puzzle. But from a manufacturing perspective, you know, you need to think about, you know, what’s going to happen not only to your organization, but also from a support perspective. If you are, you know, your customers are dependent on you from a raw materials perspective, and if you have an incident, how is that downstream impact going to affect and impact your customers ability to produce products as well?

Tammy: So the industries are all unique. I think the beauty about the cyber industry is that regardless of what industry you work in, everybody’s fighting the same common battles and sharing across those industries from a cyber perspective, is not frowned upon, because we are all working together, and we all stand to benefit what others have done, either before us or alongside of us as well.

Chris: Yeah, that’s a great point. I mean, I’ve found that this industry alone is one to help the next person, and especially here in the Philly region. I mean, I’ve seen it firsthand, you know, with the leadership that we have here, and I honestly can’t say that that’s the case for other regions. So I just want to point that out.

Tammy: That is so true, Chris, because, I mean, honestly, when I did my stint in New Jersey, I stayed very connected to the Philadelphia community. That was where I was received and accepted into the. Into the cyber industry. And Philly has been my home from. From that perspective. And the amount of relationships and friendships that I’ve formed over the past ten years has been amazing. And to now be recognized as one of the leaders with, you know, with the.

Tammy: With the community and the new folks who are joining. Being able and having opportunities like this is just amazing for me.

Chris: Yeah. Very well respected in the community, very active in the community here. You’re involved with the Wisdell Valley chapter. You keynote many conferences here. You just published a book. So with all of that, in addition to the set of responsibilities that you have as a CISo, how do you effectively time manage that? You know, plus what we don’t see, you know, how do you stay committed to your work leadership role, plus your home life while staying active in the community?

Tammy: So that’s been an interesting challenge and journey for me for most of my career, because I have spent most of my career as a single mom raising my two daughters, who are now 20 and 23. So I have a little bit more time available now, which has allowed me to get more involved in a lot of the industry wide events that happen in the evening and the wis organizations, Cloud Security alliance, et cetera.

Tammy: But as the girls were growing up, for me, it was always about making sure that my boundaries were clear. Right. And the people I was working for or with knew that, because there’s definitely times when I needed to come in late or leave early or go to something on a Friday afternoon because the kids were finishing up a week of camp and the end of week program was there. And I have a story that I like to tell specifically around this, because when I was in internal audit at air products, you know, that was outside of it. It was traditional finance, a little bit of a different culture.

Tammy: And I vividly remember I always tried to err on over communicating so people didn’t question where I was or what I was doing. And it was a Friday, and I. I had to take my mom to a doctor appointment because I’m the primary caregiver for her. And then the girls had a closing camp ceremony. So I sent a message to my boss and I said, hey, look, this is the deal. And the response I got was, so, are you working today or are you not working today?

Tammy: And my answer to him was, does it matter? Said, if you need me to take a vacation day, I will. But is my job not getting done? And it really became a pivotal point in our relationship and our ability to work together because the recognition of what was most important to me was my family, but I didn’t allow my job to suffer. It was just a matter of being flexible enough to get it done when I could to meet the deadlines necessary. So time management has always been key from that perspective.

Tammy: And there’s probably, you know, friends and such that you’ll talk to that, say, sometimes she waits till the last minute, and it drives me crazy, but it’s always done. Right. And that’s what’s most important in those situations. Right. So being able to balance priorities and set boundaries is probably the two things that I will say allowed me to advance in my career, raise two successful children, and be present for everybody who needed me along the way.

Being able to balance priorities and set boundaries is probably the two things that I will say allowed me to advance in my career, raise two successful children, and be present for everybody who needed me along the way. Share on X

Chris: Yeah. And I’m sure there are other leaders, or aspiring leaders in the same situation, you know, with their back against the wall, having to deal with an organization that doesn’t respect that, and, you know, having to choose, really, between their professional life and their personal life. So what would your advice be to someone who is trying to walk both sides of that boundary line and who is struggling and really just realizing that this is not an easy situation to escape from.

Tammy: Yeah, I think. I think my other bit of advice is, you know, making sure that, you know, as you understand and define what your personal boundaries are and whether that means, you know, from a time, from a prioritization perspective, but even more along the lines of, you know, what are you, where are you willing to compromise and where are you not willing to compromise? Right. And unless you consciously have that conversation with yourself as you approach one of those boundaries, you are not going to be able to make a decision kind of on the fly. So my advice is to make sure you reflect and be very self aware about what those boundaries are for yourself.

Tammy: So, you know, for example, another. Another good story that I can share with you is that, you know, this was going back to air products as well. And we were talking about, oh, something had to be done by the weekend. And, you know, it couldn’t wait. And I literally stopped everybody, everybody. And I said, why? And that’s bold and it’s brave because you’re not, you know, succumbing to the pressure of, you know, somebody saying it has to without giving you a reason why.

Tammy: So I think, you know, that’s the other bit of advice, is not be, don’t be afraid to challenge the status quo or what is perceived to be an unrealistic deadline or requirement. And maybe there is a really good reason for it, but if it’s not clearly understood, then it gets all wrapped up in emotion that doesn’t need to be there. Anger, because I’m being forced to work on the weekend, and I had these six things to do.

Tammy: So being able to ask clarifying questions, getting that guidance so that everybody’s on the same page is extremely important.

Chris: Yeah, that’s great advice. And a lot of your thoughts are reflected in your new book, leading with empathy and grace secrets to developing high performing teams, which was just released. Right. So tell us a little bit about the book.

Tammy: Sure. The book was released in April. April 1. No April fools there. But it was something that I wanted to do for quite some time. It was inspired by one of my previous leaders who, you know, early in my career, he looked at me and he was like, tammy, he’s like, you need to teach people to lead like you do. And I looked at him and I said, what? I said, this is who I am, right? He goes, yes, but more people need to do what you do.

Tammy: So that kind of stuck with me for, you know, obviously several years. And when I left Covanta, I had decided I was going to take a mental health break, had some things to take care of from a life perspective with my mom and with my oldest daughter. So I took six months off and said, okay, what am I going to do with this time? And in addition to helping my mom and my daughter, I said, you know what? This is a really good time for me to figure out if I’m going to do this book thing or not.

Tammy: And I did, and it was a great experience. You know, everybody wants to know how long it took. And it was really a six month effort by design. It could have taken a lot longer, but I knew if I allowed myself to do it, it would drag on and on and on. So I wanted to do it. I wanted to get it done, and it also allowed me to really heal might not be the right word, but definitely take some time to realign right in between jobs and to really share some of the stories that have been beneficial to me in my career.

Tammy: And, you know, so it was a great experience, and it’s been a little surreal since the book’s been released. It’s over. It’s Amazon bestseller now, and. But seeing it on, you know, seeing it, you know, on the Internet and your name there, it’s just kind of crazy. But, so that, that’s really the inspiration from the book. And the book is about leadership. You know, when I told folks I was writing a book, they’re like, oh, is it gonna be a cyber book? And I was like, heck, no.

Tammy: I’m like.

Chris: Well, no, I love that about the book is that it’s cross industry.

Tammy: It is. It is. It’s very much focused on leadership. And obviously, there’s stories that are cyber relevant just because of my background, but it’s really about leadership. And it’s. It’s not even just for folks who have people who are reporting to them. It’s more about leadership skills for life, as. As I would define it, because life happens to all of us, right. And we find ourselves in situations that are maybe are a bit uncomfortable or we need to provide some direction, and we don’t have direct control over the people who need to help us resolve an issue or find a solution, but. So how do we influence that group without having the authority to say, you have to do this? Right?

Tammy: So I think it’s beneficial not only, you know, for leaders in organizations who have people reporting to them, but anybody who has to demonstrate leadership skills across, you know, any circumstance, whether, you know, from, you know, a child activity, leading a sporting team, a scout event, or anything like that, I think it can be beneficial for.

Chris: Very true. So in that book, you provide a list of 25 qualities that leaders should look out for or nurture in themselves. And among these, which three do you believe are the most critical for a leader to develop, especially in a cutthroat business environment? And also, why are these qualities so vital from your perspective?

Tammy: So, yes, there’s 25, and we won’t go through all 25 of them, but I will. The first, the most important three are the first three in the list from, from Tammy’s perspective. Right. And the first one is actually about self awareness and being able to, you know, step back and look at yourself, understand not only how others see you, but how you see yourself and understanding where those gaps are and really focus on, you know, do I, do I care what everybody else thinks?

Tammy: And if I do, what am I going to do about that? If there are areas of weakness, am I okay with that? And what do I want to do about it? Are my strengths demonstrative? Are they the strengths that I want to exhibit to folks who I’m interacting with? So being able to, you know, be vulnerable with yourself and really look at what makes you tick as an individual, I think is extremely important. And being able to say, okay, I know this is where I have some opportunity, and I’m going to consciously work on that, I think, you know, that’s, that’s foundational for anybody across the board.

Chris: Second, so important.

Tammy: Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Second and third are the title of the book, Empathy and Grace. And, you know, they’re not traditional words that you hear in corporate America, but for, for me, they’ve resonated extremely well throughout my entire career, up until as recently as last weekend when we were going through our crowdstrike fund. I’ll leave it at that. But really being able to, from an empathetic perspective, being aware of other people’s feelings, maintaining a neutral position and being inclusive in your dialogue, your actions as you’re working with your team, you know, feelings are things that not a lot of people want to talk about.

Empathy and Grace are not traditional words that you hear in corporate America, but for me, they’ve resonated extremely well throughout my entire career. Share on X

Tammy: However, we are all human beings, and there is definitely that component of it, whether folks want to admit that or not. A lot of this people will refer to as soft skills, which I actually hate when people use that reference because it makes them sounds squishy and not important. But I would actually twist that and say these are some of the most critical skills that leaders need to develop and bring into their leadership style from an, from a human aspect.

Tammy: And then Grace. Grace is like an amazing word for me. And I will. I’ll talk about it in the context of the qualities of a leader, and then I’m going to share another story with you, Chris. But it’s really a around demonstrating kindness, radical acceptance of, you know, what others believe in and acknowledging that, and then basically having mercy to understand and relate and adapt as people need them, need you to, as their leader.

Tammy: And, you know, kind, it should go without saying, you know, kindness, we all should be exhibiting kindness. But when stakes are high and, you know, the things that drive you, maybe monetarily or competitively, kind of sometimes really goes out the window. Right. So there’s a lot of truth in the, well, let’s kill them with kindness type of approach, because it becomes the foundation of a relationship that if and when I need to deliver news that is not the best news or maybe not positive, it. It is received differently because of the work and building those relationships and the acknowledgement of what you have done for others or what they have done for the team that they’re a part of.

Kindness is crucial, particularly when stakes are high. Share on X

Tammy: And Grace, I’ll say she became very helpful throughout the development of the book, because one of the things that my writer and I worked on is there was actually an exercise that I had to do was to create an avatar for the book, like, in my head, and who’s the person I’m going to talk to when I’m questioning how I’m going to write something or what the messages I want to get across. So the Avatar that we came up with, not so much from an image perspective, but from a name perspective, actually ended up being Grace.

Tammy: So anytime there was a. A struggle or one of those, you know, brain freeze moments when the words were just not coming or the thoughts were not comprehensive, you know, the question was, what would you tell Grace to do, Tammy?

Chris: Okay.

Tammy: It was subtle, but it was so helpful. And now, you know, I just. I embrace that entirely.

Chris: So you’ve learned something along the way of just writing the book, too.

Tammy: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

Chris: Yeah. I think they’re all extremely important. It reminds me of the saying that you hear, you know, people don’t leave jobs, they leave managers. One stat that I just put up says 30% of people reported considered leaving their job because of their manager. So I think that tells you that many managers don’t have these qualities or that, you know, don’t put enough focus on it.

Tammy: Yeah. And I would also flip that right then. And I don’t know if we’d go to the 70%, but there’s also the group of people that do stay because of their manager, right? Yes, absolutely. And, you know, I remember doing a pretty big project at Covanta, honestly, and there was a timeline associated with a bunch of work that needed to get done, and there was a whole team of internal resources, external resources. And we were having a meeting, and I looked at them and I said, now, I said, if I just had a magic wand and we could wave that magic wand, it would all be done, and you would all just come to me and say, tammy, it’s all good.

Tammy: And, you know, I didn’t realize kind of the profound impact on that statement, because, one, the team turned around, and a week later, they got me a magic wand that is, you know, in my office now, but it instilled the desire in them to want to do a good job, to get the job done, and to not disappoint the team or me as a result of that. So instilling that type of empowerment and acknowledgement that you’ve got this and I want you to get it done and we’re all going to succeed or fail together is powerful.

Tammy: To bring teams together and accomplish a common goal that everybody’s working on for the same successes.

Chris: I want to switch lanes slightly, but you also, you in the book discuss the importance of carefully assembling a team and understanding the dynamics of team development. What are some key factors that you consider when selecting individual team members and how do you ensure these choices contribute to establishing a high performing team overall?

Tammy: So a couple of things that I would share with the audience is one looking for, I’ll say, appetite, passion and desire to learn. You want people on your team who are all aligned and want to be successful. It only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch, right? So when I’m interviewing or looking for team members to, and it may be working on a project, a project team as opposed to an organizational team, it’s what is the energy that they’re going to bring to this team?

Tammy: And energy is powerful. Positive energy creates success, camaraderie, teamwork, collaboration, negative energy just drives the team into downward spirals that do not need to happen. It can be perceived as constant competition. It can be perceived as, you know, I don’t agree with you, so we’re not going to do it that way, my way or the highway type of thing. So if you can bring a set of open minded, determined individuals to the team, who are you technically capable and willing to learn, the team will be successful.

Tammy: And I believe those are some of the most important things. Culture is a big thing. How do you define culture? Well, that’s really hard, but I think when you’re interviewing and putting together members of a project team, you in most cases will know what those individuals can bring to the organization and think about it in the context of what you need them to do or what role they need to fill on the team.

Tammy: Because let’s face it, a lot of folks in cyber, a lot of folks in it, are very technically driven, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that because we need those people and the brains and the expertise that they actually bring to the table. The counter to that is, what bedside manner do they bring with them? Right? So think about the brain surgeon who needs to go in and do some pretty detailed, sensitive surgery that can impact a human life and you want that person for their skill and their capability, but they can be a complete ass, excuse my expression, in the doctor’s office.

Tammy: And you got to figure out, is that what you want? Is that going to be helpful? And it’s a different circumstance, right. Brain surgery versus a project team. The risks and the outcomes are definitely very different. But again, it goes back to what are you willing to compromise in certain situations, but you want folks who are going to come together, work together, collaborate, and really be able to excel together as an organization.

Tammy: There’s no I in team. Right. This is all about, it’s all about working together.

Chris: I completely agree. So do you believe passion and, and positive energy supersedes skillset?

Tammy: There definitely is a balance. Right. And I’m not going to say that, you know, technically you don’t, quote, need to know anything. That would be an accurate statement. Right, right. You know, I was just mentoring somebody a little bit ago, earlier today, and, you know, the question that she had asked me was like, okay, so, you know, if I want to do something with cloud, should I do aws and azure? And I’m like, you don’t need to do both.

Tammy: I’m like, do one right and get your foundation. And then the skills become transferable to a different type of technology. So when I’m interviewing or I’m looking at resumes, it’s what have you done that contributes to the role that I’m looking to fill. Do you have some background, some knowledge? Have you done everything? No, and that’s okay. You know, one of the things that I run into oftentimes from an OT security perspective in the manufacturing facilities, you know, a lot of the folks who have been working on the shop floor have not gone through a traditional, you know, four year degree program, but they know the business.

Tammy: They know how the machinery works. They know what the product is that we’re making. And I’ll take that person all day long on my security team because they understand the business. And yes, we can teach them the security stuff. And, you know, when you get into a debate with HR around, well, do they need a four year degree? And I say no. They’re like, what do you mean? I’m like, they have commensurate experience.

Tammy: I don’t need them to have a four year degree.

Chris: Yeah. Let me ask you this. So if an organization is having cultural issues and establishing chemistry with other team members, how do you repair that? Are there methods that leaders can do to sort of reverse a negative energy environment?

Tammy: I believe the answer to that question is yes. But it’s hard work, right? It’s that softer skill work that is required. So one of the things that I two very pivotal team turnarounds that I’ve done in my career, one was with my network and voice technical support team back at air products, and then with my infrastructure and security team at Covanta. And there was just, you know, a mismatched set of expectations, right?

Tammy: So taking the time to sit with them and get to know them becomes extremely important. So with my team at Covanta, we did a five day team building event, and they’re like, five days? Are you kidding me? What the heck are we gonna do? But it was all around, you know, getting to know your teammates, people sharing what they were most comfortable sharing with, not forcing anybody to do anything that would make them uncomfortable, to kind of set that stage, talk to them about the vision and mission of the organization and where the organization actually needs to go.

Tammy: And then talking about it in the context of, we are all either going to succeed together or we are all going to fail together, this is no, you know, I’m going to rise to the top and the rest of you are going to suffer. And, you know, one of the things that we specifically did at Covanta to really demonstrate that is we were bringing on a new managed service provider during my tenure there. And the historical nature was, well, let’s blame the vendor when something went wrong.

Tammy: So here we are. We’re bringing on a new MSP. They’re going to be held to SLA’s. We got to do the knowledge transfer. And there was somebody from Covanta who was leading each of the different domains that needed to be onboarded. And, you know, I got to the point where I was tired of, well, they’re not doing this or they’re not doing that. And I said, okay, what are you going to do about it, right? This isn’t a we and them thing, right? So you need to figure out how you’re going to get them to be successful so you are successful. And ultimately, we are successful.

Tammy: So is getting folks to kind of rally around that know what they’re working towards, what the end goal is, so that everybody can rally together. And that’s exactly what happened last weekend with the crowdstrike event. You know, emotions could have gone completely sideways. Right. What is going on? Oh, my gosh, the sky is falling. But it was really, you know, a situation where calmer heads prevail and people. People are actually having to work together.

Tammy: And if you know what you’re working towards and how you’re going to go about it. And there’s not this blame game going on that we’re all in this together, excuse the cliche. And keeping them grounded and focused is what they need. So it can be overcome. To go back to your original question, but it needs to be deliberate. It needs to be intentional. And the other thing that I did as part of that transformation of that team at Covanta is acknowledging the fact that, one, we’re all human beings.

Tammy: Two, we do make mistakes. Right. But you are not going to make the same mistake twice because that means you didn’t learn from the first time. So I’m going to have a conversation with you when I observe something that did not get handled the way it should have. But we’re going to talk about it. We’re going to put it in, you know, the box and tuck it away, and then next time, that’s not going to happen again.

Tammy: And that’s demonstratable behavior then. And the more you do that, the more it starts to click, it starts to resonate, and people are like, okay, I got it. So it can be done, but it is very deliberate.

Chris: Yeah, yeah. That is great advice. And I think it’s not discussed enough. So I appreciate you sharing that insight. So the book also introduces the TTIPPC framework designed for sustaining team development. If you don’t mind, could you elaborate on the TTIPPC principles and how they can be applied, and then also talk to how these principles have benefited you in your own personal leadership journey.

Tammy: Sure. Sure. So let me just run through what it stands for, right? Because every acronym, you know, has a. Has a meaning behind it. So, transparency, togetherness, inclusion, presence, participation and consistency. And these have been foundational for me as a leader. And every time I onboard with a new team, this is something that we, we talk about, because I think, you know, this is an opportunity to set the stage for my leadership style and expectations around how I am going to perform, how I expect them to perform.

Tammy: And it opens the door for if somebody feels that that is not how the team is operating, they get to call out that behavior. So from a transparency perspective, one of the things that I tell my teams, you know, there are going to be times in the organization that I am not going to be able to share information because it’s not publicly available yet or it’s still being baked. But if you ask me a question about it, I’m not going to make up some answer. Right? I’m going to tell you one. I either don’t know and I’ll find out or two.

Tammy: I can’t talk to you about that right now. When I can, you’ll be the first one. So, again, demonstrable behavior from a transparency perspective allows it to be reciprocated on the other side of that as well. Togetherness, I think, you know, this one is, again, it kind of feels weird for corporate America, right. But developing a sense of team and camaraderie is extremely important. So the one thing that I do and I’ve done in different ways at each of my organizations, but right now at Trinsio, we have a Friday fun half hour.

Tammy: My team is geographically dispersed around the world. You know, different time zones, different backgrounds, ethnicities, nationalities. So we just spend a half hour on the phone every Friday. We don’t talk about work. We talk about what you’re doing the weekend, you know, what’s the family got planned? What are your highlights? You know, did you travel anywhere, share some pictures? And it’s just to level the paying field that we’re human beings and building that sense of togetherness because you work better then inclusion.

Tammy: Again, this is so important from a leadership perspective, one, you know, making sure you’re giving everybody an opportunity to talk, even those folks who are not necessarily interested or wanting to talk. Opening the door and inviting them is very different than just not acknowledging that they’re there or not contributing. Right. So if you invite and they choose not to contribute, that’s different than not inviting at all.

Tammy: I think the other thing is you need to make sure as a leader, you are equally accessible to everybody on your team. Playing favorites is nothing going to bode well for anybody. So making sure that you are available, and when you are available, it goes right into the next one. From a presence perspective, you need to give them your undivided attention. And it is extremely hard in today’s world with all of our remote capabilities and the multiple demands that are hoisted on us and our need to multitask, or our desire to multitask.

Tammy: If you are having a one on one conversation with somebody on your team, they deserve 100% of your attention. And that, again, is intentional and deliberate because it is way too easy to be distracted. And that becomes extremely important of being there when they need you to be there. Participation, getting everybody engaged, no talking at each other, you know, inviting others to the table to talk. My team meetings, you know, usually they’ll start out as I’m onboarding a team, that I’m the one who’s doing a lot of talking just because we’re getting to know each other.

Tammy: But as time goes on, I want everybody to be contributing to the conversation that is actually going on. What are you working on? What is the most important thing that you’re working on right now that everybody on the team should know about? Because we want to be consistent, cohesive in our messages, our actions, and what we’re delivering as an organization. So again, making sure that if I’m saying I’m going to do something, I follow through and I get it done.

Tammy: I also really encourage my folks to make sure that as they’re promising things, they’re going to get something done by, or there’s a timeline required that you are constantly in the mode of under promising and over delivering as opposed to over promising and continuing to under deliver, because then your reliability as an individual in an organization is not demonstrable and people get frustrated by that, right? Oh, I’m not going to get that.

Tammy: We all have a lot to do. I get it, and we’re all guilty of it at some point in time. But if you set that as one of the principles of the team dynamics, I think that, again, it’s about setting the stage, setting expectations so folks know what you want to see from them and then again, allowing them the opportunity to call you out. Right. So this book has been, you know, it makes me a little bit vulnerable. Like, I talk about all this stuff in the book.

Tammy: So my team right now, I’m like, okay, like, it’s printed, it’s out there. If I’m not doing something, I say I’m telling everybody else to do. You have to, like, you know, give me the, the red card that says, whoa, you know, this is not right, Tammy. So, so that, that’s a little, you know, unnerving as well. So, but that, that’s what the TTIPPC principles are about.

Chris: Yeah, I love that, that framework, and I love that your perspective, again, applies cross industry. You know, I really believe that your message and your advice will really help existing leadership as well as aspiring leadership as well. So truly appreciate your efforts and truly believe that everyone who will read this book will definitely benefit from it. With that, where can we purchase your book leading with empathy and grace secrets to developing high performing teams?

Tammy: Absolutely. So it is on Amazon. It’s leading with empathy and grace under my name, actually, Tammy Harkinsklot. So if you just search Amazon, you’ll be able to find it. I’m available on LinkedIn. And anybody who is, you know, interested in connecting, I would love to hear from you. I always just ask that as folks, connect on LinkedIn, you give me a little bit of insight as to why you’re connecting with me and not all these cold calls.

Tammy: Essentially, I’d like to know why and why you want to connect or how we met previously. So LinkedIn and then LinkedIn for me and Amazon for the book.

Chris: So you’re a native to the Philadelphia region. If there were a bar or a social venue to relax after a long day in this region, what would you say your favorite venue is here?

Tammy: So, I mean, that’s an interesting question, because, you know, I am, you know, probably about an hour north of the Philadelphia area, but a lot of my. A lot of our interactions, Chris, are always down in that Philadelphia king of Prussia. So, you know, there’s so many different places that we could go. But for me, usually, if I’m trying to find a happy medium, some choice between the city and between the Allentown area, I’ll usually head towards Plymouth meeting. And my go to spot, honestly, is the Redstone grill there, because it’s kind of a good halfway point and it’s got a great atmosphere. There’s an outside patio.

Tammy: I’ve had many dinners and happy hours there with a lot of my Philadelphia colleagues and friends that are part of my cyber family, if you will. So that’s kind of where I usually we’ll head to, but I’ll do a selfish plug next week. Women in cyber on Wednesday is actually doing a happy hour social hour at the sly fox in Malvern before, so we’ll see how that goes. But again, there’s plenty of places to go.

Chris: Awesome. So I just heard last call here. Do you have time for one more?

Tammy: Absolutely.

Chris: All right. If you decided to open a cybersecurity themed bar, what would the name be and what would your signature drink be called?

Tammy: So I have to say my creative juices were struggling a little bit on this one. So I did, you know, go to the dark side, and I used chat GPT.

Chris: That’s all right.

Tammy: But I didn’t like a lot of them, and I kept saying, what about another one? What about another one? So the one that I landed on is actually called the zero day Tavern, which I thought was appropriate for the industry. And then the drink of choice, or my signature drink playing on some of the book, if you will, and you alluded to it of, am I pronouncing it right? But the TTIPPC tonic. And, you know, chap GPT is kind of crazy because it actually gave me a recipe for what should be in a TTIPPC tonic, which I thought was hysterical. So some vodka, some triple sec tamarind syrup, lime juice, tonic water, bitters and some lime. So I don’t know, we might have to try that.

Tammy: But it was definitely, I was like, oh, that’ll work. So that I love it.

Chris: Tammy, thanks so much again, really appreciate the time and knowledge. Everyone listening, go get the book. Connect with Tammy. Just make sure you tell her why you’re connecting and that you heard her on barcode and enjoyed the conversation. So thanks so much, Tammy.

Tammy: You bet. Thanks for the opportunity, Chris.